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  • http://twitter.com/SkyKuster Buri Ram

    Jesus , what is happening to those american people…
    They where hoodwinked by slick soothslayer’ with a tan
    Sink the dollar

  • DJ

    I hold silver, not gold, in my goldmoney.com account. Does that make a difference? Thanks!

    • Diogenes

      No.

    • Cogitator

      The law says, “money, credit, securities, or gold.” So silver, platinum, and palladium would not be subject to reporting.

  • Diogenes

    Having Gold in an overseas safety deposit box is kind of like having a high concrete wall with razor wire and guards around your house to stop burglars. The wall makes it so much more difficult for the burglars to get through, that they basically don't stand a chance unless they somehow get their hands on a tank. Getting a tank is expensive and probably makes it a not worthwhile expense for robbing your house.

    There are a broad spectrum of potential burglars: national governments,state governments,local governments, business associates, former spouses, business associates,etc,etc. Keeping all your Gold in the country of your citizenship and living base means being fully vulnerable to all of them. As of this moment, keeping Gold in a safe deposit box overseas means being vulnerable to nothing but a capital gains tax if you sell the Gold, and even then you don't have to reveal the location of none sold Gold.

    Only one of the potential burglars has any chance to be able to obtain the 'tank' necessary to grab your overseas Gold, but hasn't yet used that option. The way I see it, the recent ruling shows both a positive and a negative message. The first negative is that by asserting that Gold money must be reported, another Potential freedom at least has been decisively taken away. The second negative is that governments often take away freedoms step by step, thus implying the next penny to drop could be the requirement to disclose all overseas Gold. The positive is that they didn't simply require all overseas Gold of every type to be reported right off the bat.

    The fact that they didn't means that they don't yet believe they have enough power to get away with that in a single announcement, and instead will probably try to do it step by step. If the dollar collapses fast enough and enough businesses and citizens start doing transactions and savings in Gold, the next step of the reporting of all property everywhere in the world might be delayed at least by popular opposition.

    However, even if the next step is implemented, having Gold overseas and a second passport are still pretty much mandatory freedom safety steps. First, the biggest burglar is not the only burglar, and no matter who grabs ones money, the money is still gone. Second, having Gold overseas puts your money outside of the US and thus able to invest and live outside the US even after domestic US Capital controls are implemented. Third, by having Gold overseas now, one at least will Have the Choice at a future date to potentially give up citizenship in response to flat out property confiscations. To many that idea will sound pretty strange right now, but I assure you it won't at all within just a couple years. At minimum It's better to at least have the ability to make a future potential choice than no choice making ability at all.

  • Bill Massey

    Yes, like a security specialist told me about 30 years ago … “Bill, locks keep honest people, honest, and you should use them.”

  • Lieglord

    Simon, you wrote, “If your money is offshore, outside of their jurisdiction, they don’t have the authority. ” I think it may be important to note that the U.S. does get some authority when such overseas nation has a tax treaty with the U.S. In my opinion it is prudent to do any offshore structuring in a NON-TAX TREATY NATION

  • Diogenes

    Also wanted to add-the situation of citizens fleeing a country that has become rapacious and taking their Gold with them has happened many times in history. Russia and the USSR for the past 100 years, Vietnam during and after the war, Germany before ww2 and countless other times. In fact, keeping ones savings in Gold and fleeing rapacious countries is an option that pretty much everyone in the world is aware of except Americans.

    We have a much bigger advantage than Germans of the 1930's and Vietnamese of the 70's in cheap air travel, overseas safety deposit boxes, the internet and the Sovereign Man premium information and networking service. Americans think the US is exempt from the laws of economics, and that a fall from imperial hubris that has happened like clockwork in history to other empires absolutely can not happen to them. They are wrong, it's just that simple.

    Preparing now might even save you from being forced to submit to the new TSA DNA gathering and analysis machine.

  • goldbug

    Give 'em time -and the gold in a safety deposit box will magically become a “financial account.” After that, the gold under your mattress will have to be disclosed…after all, there is a “custodian” sleeping on top of it…

  • Maldek

    Simon you clearly have been living with regulations like this for a very long time. Dont underestimate them – if there is a wish of knowing there is also a wish of taking.

    Reading your email gave me some thought. I am not an US citizen but still regulations like these are so outrageous that even their simple existance would rule out the US as a country of residence for me.

    Who on earth gave these bureaucrats the RIGHT to demand such information from EVERY citizen? Treated like a criminal?
    What the hell is going on with these people!? Who on earth they think they are?

    If ANY goverment on this planet would try to impose rules like these – no place would be too far to run. Seriously the IRS (and others) are a bunch of thiefs who take way too many rights into their own hands.

    As I understand the american constitution, it gives its citizen the right to own and carry arms for the event that the goverment claims rights it simply is not supposed to have.

    The TSA treatment on airports is not enough?
    Reporting the seize of your financial underwear is not enough?
    Rampart devaluation of the U$ to fund socialist policies is not enough?

    Where are you people drawing the line?

    As long as the IRS and the FED are allowed to exist, there will never be true freedom in the united states.

    If you can not change the facts, you can at least get the hell out of there.

    All the best,
    Maldek

  • Peter Larson

    What about the Perth Mint Certificate program Simon? Can you get an absolutely sure ruling on what the allocated and the unallocated holdings constitute? Are they a foreign financial account? Some people have said the unallocated certificate is for a pooled account and thus a financial account and the allocated certificate backed holding is not. I have a friend who is quite worried about this since the person who sold the Perth Mint Certificate idea to him suggested the unallocated certificate program would not have to be declared. If he declares it now after having had it for many years now, they might charge him with a crime since they would say they always deemed it to be a financial account whereas the buyer thought it was not. It seems that this person is in a damned if you do and damned if you do not situation. What should this person do? Keep it a secret or declare it and risk getting nailed?

    • Diogenes

      Imo it's plain as day that 'pooled' accounts involve a third party and are thus required to be reported. Keeping it 'secret' would definitely be a huge mistake. What your friend needs to do as is always the case is talk to a good lawyer.

  • mike

    I hold silver, not gold, in my goldmoney.com account. Does that need to be reported to the IRS? Or is it only gold over 10k right now? Thanks!

  • whatha

    I am just learning about all this.

    So I have gold or silver in an offshore holding situation. If things REALLY go to hell in the US and I am still here, how do I know I will actually be able to access it?

    Say that martial law was imposed after the dollar crashes and the chaos breaks out. How would I hope to get my my gold or silver?

    All this sounds very nice unless the worst case scenario really happens.

  • Cogitator

    The IRS ruling says, “money, credit, securities, or gold.” So a GoldMoney account denominated in gold must be reported, but not one in silver, platinum or palladium. By changing the metal one would seem to avoid the reporting requirement.

    • TC

      I like your logic and workaround with silver and palladium. Are you completely 100% sure on the exclusion of silver and palladium (it only applies to gold only), though?

      • Cogitator

        I quoted what the law says, and since it specifically mentions gold, and does not mention silver, platinum, and palladium, I think the only logical conclusion one can draw is that only gold requires reporting, and the others do not. I am not a lawyer, but I'm just reading the law, and making my statements from what it says.

    • Diogenes

      The regulators almost certainly wrote 'gold' instead of 'precious metals' out of pure ignorance. Despite that, since any goldmoney metal can be exchanged at any time for other metals or currencies, and it can also be used as an e-currency, that makes it a type of foreign currency checking account-since you can literally write a type of electronic check against it or transfer metal to cash conversions from it into dollar bank accounts.

      The US government has made it a point to vigorously prosecute any US citizens who attempt to run a precious metals bank or transaction company, so not reporting any goldmoney accounts is Guaranteed to be a big mistake.

      btw-there is an additional reporting requirement for 2011 for any electronic transaction system that involves both 200 transactions and more than $20k. So if you have more than 200 goldmoney transactions and a + $20k balance, you will have to report it on 2 different forms. It took a couple years of hearings to work out the details of that, and surprise, surprise the government pushed for it to be as expansive as possible. Your far safer assuming any reporting requirements are Broader, not narrower. Total property reporting is clearly their goal and they intend to pursue it.

      Is that fair? Of course not, and it's also a reality backed by jail for US citizens.

  • Chris

    Yet another reason I believe that physical outside of your country of residency and or citizenship is a must.

  • Dave

    As the govt continues to merge their data from the DMV, FBI, banks and the IRS, they'll be able to create a complete profile of each citizen. Now, if you declared your offshore assets to the IRS, what is to stop a corrupt official from framing you and then working with a judge to force you to repatriate those assets? Sure, maybe the govt can't force another jurisdiction to hand over your assets, but they probably won't have to either because the people demanding those assets may have the power to put you in jail or ruin your life in other ways.

  • Joe Bob Gonzales

    regarding Homeland InSecurity and FUD. dont mean Elmer.

    I was in Sales for 27 years before retiring. and a regulatory analyst with the old ATT (pre breakup) before entering sales. more money, less corporate bullshit.

    worked for intl companies in software, high tech consulting, and electronic legal publishing. sold to lawyers and C level types in silicon valley, government, and finance (brokers/mortgage banker types)

    I have to tell you that even with really smart people like this, FUD worked as a sales tool.

    Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

    after I retired, and had time to read for fun and general education, I came across a concept called the Hegelian Dialectic. (ts not new stuff, but my focus had been elsewhere…what can I say.)

    that is, Synthesis, AntiThesis, and Synthesis.

    I then realized that governments have been using this crap to control populations forever.

    1. create a bogey man (say, Al Queada and osama bin laden (who it is generally agreed in other countries, died several years ago),

    2. then show the evil this bogeyman can do. although how a dead man can issue new threat tapes when required to keep the game going is an interesting concept.

    3. and then say……hey, give me money and more power and I will Protect you. (from a bogeyman they created in the first place.).

    2 perfect examples of this:

    1. the Reichstag fire…..set by Nazis and which brought Hitler into power. legitimately.

    2. 9/11. need I say more? and so the solution is: You have to give up your freedoms in order to protect you from people who hate your freedoms.

    what the fuck? and the public bought this crap? I shake my head in sorrow every day

  • Watauga

    Do you need to report overseas holdings even if you don't file taxes? If so, how?

  • Jpyke

    Can anyone give me the exact web location of the IRS clarification of the reporting requirements for FFA's mentioned in this article? I can find no mention of it in any of the Enforcement Division rulings.

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