Doug Casey on Argentina, investing, and the open door

by Simon Black · View Comments

My inbox has been flooded lately with questions about a luxury real estate development in northern Argentina called La Estancia de Cafayate. Undoubtedly, the volume of emails is a strong indicator of the number of people thinking about expatriation.

Rather than answer the questions myself, though, I decided that it was a good occasion for me to reach out to my own network and call the man himself, Doug Casey, who is developing the project.

Doug and I spent some time chatting about the project, his thoughts on Argentina, investing, and networking with fellow expats. In full disclosure, I have absolutely no financial interest in the property whatsoever in any capacity. Furthermore, I have not purchased a lot at the property because, as a nomadic single male, I am not an ideal candidate.

For the right people, though, Cafayate is probably close to paradise. This would apply to expeditioners, retirees, hedonists, and even hermits.

The weather and scenery are spectacular, and the amenities in the development are second to none– I have seen it with my own eyes, and Doug really did a great job putting together a first class community, right down to the cigar bar.

As I mention in the interview, though, there are a multitude of beautiful places in the world.  One of the things that sets Cafayate apart is that it is a clear example of an ‘open door’ to a fascinating and intriguing network of individuals.

I wrote about this in the Network Infiltration Black Paper– finding a network’s open door often means being a customer first, whether through a club membership or real estate development.  It is the natural way to get noticed and provides an opportunity to start building relationships.

Cafayate is a great example– other buyers in the project include successful investors and entrepreneurs, influential foreigners, high ranking corporate executives, etc., each of whom is ‘philosophically sound’ as Doug explains it.

Becoming part of the community is an opportunity to build relationships with this network of successful individuals, including Doug himself, who will be living and spending time in Cafayate.

While the project and its network are definitely not for everyone, Doug’s commentary is entertaining and valuable for all. I challenge him on his view of Argentine politics, and we enjoy some laughs, especially when I get him to speak Spanish.

You can listen to the interview by selecting one of the streaming audio options below; to download it, right click one of the selections and click “Save As” to save it to your computer.

Doug Casey interview (primary server)

Doug Casey interview (alternate server)

Doug Casey interview (alternate server)

To hear more from Doug, you can sign up for his weekly column, Conversations with Casey.

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  • allen hartwell
    I was listening to your interview about Cafayate and wanted to know what
    the cost of property and the cost of a home is in your development. I am a
    Chiropractor practicing applied kinesiology and the type of people you speak
    about seems interesting. I took your advise 12 years ago and got into the
    metals and can see that soon it should pay off greater than it has already.

    Thank You,
    Allen
  • Adrian Addesso
    Hi! My name is Adrian, I would like to get contacted with you. I´m sorry to post this request here, but you od not have a contact sheet :) Just for you to know, I would like to share some info for your blog. Best regards. AdrianAddesso
  • Mark
    What is the price range for a place in Cafayate?
  • Bob Hays
    Bugger. Message lost when nearly done. Computers can be a PITA sometimes.

    Summary. I've been there, and it's upscale, early stage, remote, and isolated. I think the views are OK, but not really spectacular by Western US standards. Check it out yourself.
  • wade
    Argentina is truly a great place and has great potential for investment and a place to live. Ive been here for years working and living here. If someone is interested in coming here and looking around i can help, i have 4x4 and can go anywhere. i know the investment climate, culture, and have contacts. my main expertise is investment in cattle lands. range65@yahoo.com
  • Me
    Thanks, interesting interview. Actually I laughed when listening about interest rates going lower. Well you were actually wrong. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5d3f0692-9334-11de-b146-00144feabdc0.html
    They can go below zero. hahaha. Full disclosure is that shorting long dated govt bonds in the UK and US is my single most painful trade I've made in the last year and a half. Still hanging on with my fingernails bleeding though.

    I read above comments regarding taking stuff into another country. What has worked for me has been firstly to not buy too much of stuff. After all it is just "stuff" and most people seem to let it distinguish who they are. When that happens moving anything anywhere becomes a major pain in the arse. I find that the less I pay attention to "stuff" the easier and happier life seems to be. After all moving to any place should involve using different furniture etc. It's part of the adventure.
  • Bob
    Thanks Simon for the insightful interview. Actually, we were one of the early buyers of property in Cafayate and are in the process of building a home on Doug Casey's development.
  • JL
    Bob.... can you give the board some idea of the prices?? Thanks.
  • Bob
    Sorry for the delay in writing. The prices are about 20% higher than when I purcahased a lot. Price ranged from $115K for 0.5 acre to $300K for 2+ acres. The location of the lot affects the price too. You can contact cafayateliving.com
  • JL
    Does anyone know the price range for a lot in Cafayate?
  • Larry C
    Simon, great info and lots of good ancillary tidbits regarding storage etc. I would have liked to hear a little more about the crime in Argentina. Is it even safe to drive back and forth between Salta and BA without a body guard? I hear it's pretty rough?

    Thanks,
    Larry
  • Nick
    When we were in Argentina 3 years ago, the Northern parts were so depressed that there was a travel warning out for turists due to the subsequent crime.

    We were going to cross the border from Elqui valley in Chile into San Juan province (South of Salta) but decided against it.

    I would also be interested on Simons take of the area. Will this development be a closed community?
  • Great Interview, interviewer and interviewee!!! Great second question, I was wondering that myself at that very same moment...
    Thank you very much for making this interview available, sounds like a great investing oportunity.
  • Paddy
    Insightful interview.

    On the topic of passports; in Doug's book, International Man, he cites the benefits of possessing a diplomtic passport. Can you update this recommendation?
  • Sebass
    Enjoyable interview and consistently excellent material. Unfortunately, relocating to a foreign country is not simple, and I think many of your listeners should be advised of the difficulties as well as the benefits highlighted in the interview. However easy it may be to acquire residency (fyi: it is important for you, Simon & Doug, to make a distinction between temporary and permanent residency) it is a complete and utter nightmare importing personal belongings - dealing with invasive customs, incredibly high import taxes, and in the case of Argentina, bonded insurance companies which charge as much as 10% per year on the value of your crate until you actually attain permanent residency. Permanent residency can actually take as long as four years in Argentina, less in Uruguay and Paraguay. In our situation, we had to pay off an agent under the table, who in turn paid off the customs agents with "birthday money." And for those who live in the Mercosur countries, as we do, you may be surprised that a permanent residency card is not always sufficient to cross the border. We have often been required to show our passports (USA) in addition to residency cards. The real advantages of Mercosur apply only to citizens at the present time.

    Challenges being what they are, we love S. America and likewise endorse Uruguay and Argentina for foreigners. As a suggestion Simon, when you recommend countries for business or personal reasons, you should also provide information about actually moving your belongings to that country. Who wants to leave everything behind when they move - especially irreplaceable core possessions like library books?

    Best wishes, Sebass
  • lrm
    Library books considered 'core possessions' and 'irreplaceable'?
    For you,but not for everyone....(unless the are signed originals,of course;then they are investments.)

    I know this post is older,but just wanted to mention that taking one's 'stuff' is nearly always mentioned on any expat blog around-whether investment or sovereign mind,or just a 'mom and pop' blog. And what is nearly always mentioned is that it's 'not worth it' to bring 'stuff'.

    Unless it's a relatively undeveloped region,or particular items are unavailable,it is advised to pare down,sell or perhaps store in your home country,your belongings. Often times,intended permanent moves end up being only a few years....and,if the move is permanent,inner changes inherent in such life evolutions usually render 'stuff' from one's former life,somewhat irrelevant.

    Sure,not in all cases...but in most,this is true.
    I really don't think it's necessary for SM to discuss logistics such as cost of shipment. Though,I do agree that many posts are glossed over and painted rosy with regard to the 'ease' of getting citizenship,residency,and the like.

    However,it should be understood and a given for anyone considering this process,that it involved planning and preserverence,and a step by step attitude.

    In that vein,4 yrs is not a long time. Americans are used to instant,give it to me now mentality. And this is part of what changes when you exchange countries-you exchange mindsets.

    thanks for all the tips,opinions and conversations,people. keep them coming!
  • Gerald
    Fantastic interview with Doug Casey Simon! ......Thanks!
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