Comments on: The Worst Investors in the World http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:26:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Joe http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-8793 Joe Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:18:52 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-8793 Well put,except..... from where I´m standing what you are describing is the first step in feeding a frenzy starting from the top down.<br><br>Do you really believe,at our present level of development, that humanity has the ability ,let alone the will to self regulate itself?<br><br>We´re still very much children.<br><br> Well put,except….. from where I´m standing what you are describing is the first step in feeding a frenzy starting from the top down.

Do you really believe,at our present level of development, that humanity has the ability ,let alone the will to self regulate itself?

We´re still very much children.

]]> By: biomedlives http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-7446 biomedlives Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:24:00 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-7446 In my view, the free market, minimal regulation people drove the economy to the edge of the cliff and then turned to the federal government for help. There are a lot of bozos at BofA, Citicorp, GE, ... as well as in the government. In my view, the free market, minimal regulation people drove the economy to the edge of the cliff and then turned to the federal government for help. There are a lot of bozos at BofA, Citicorp, GE, … as well as in the government.

]]> By: Cameron Benz http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-7155 Cameron Benz Tue, 03 Aug 2010 05:55:26 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-7155 "The world is not full of doom and gloom. Yes, our political leaders are a bunch of idiots, but we can rise above that easily and find new possibilities everywhere to secure and improve our lives and the lives of our families. This is one of the most important points that I hope you get out of these conversations."<br><br>I was thinking recently, that there comes a point in life when you realize that just because someone is in a position of power or has a "greater" education, doesn't mean they have the answers either. Your quote kind of tied in with that. Well put and couldn't agree with you more. <br><br>And lets not forget, most the politicians won't be taking any pay cuts. “The world is not full of doom and gloom. Yes, our political leaders are a bunch of idiots, but we can rise above that easily and find new possibilities everywhere to secure and improve our lives and the lives of our families. This is one of the most important points that I hope you get out of these conversations.”

I was thinking recently, that there comes a point in life when you realize that just because someone is in a position of power or has a “greater” education, doesn't mean they have the answers either. Your quote kind of tied in with that. Well put and couldn't agree with you more.

And lets not forget, most the politicians won't be taking any pay cuts.

]]> By: Escapekey http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6904 Escapekey Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:36:18 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6904 "Realistically, if the government hadn’t started its anti-recession stimulus programs, the fiscal year 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. budget deficits should have been $160.7 billion or better; essentially, the government should have spent as much in 2008 as it did in 2007, barring the recession."<br><br>The war costs were not included in Bush's budget. Obama included the wars on his first day in charge, and the result was a significant 'pop' in the official deficit. “Realistically, if the government hadn’t started its anti-recession stimulus programs, the fiscal year 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. budget deficits should have been $160.7 billion or better; essentially, the government should have spent as much in 2008 as it did in 2007, barring the recession.”

The war costs were not included in Bush's budget. Obama included the wars on his first day in charge, and the result was a significant 'pop' in the official deficit.

]]> By: Super30221 http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6826 Super30221 Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:13:37 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6826 JOVE- What makes you believe that if we give these 'idiots' more time, then their wasteful spending use of our money will strat to bear fruit? I think, Simon's point si that, sure, spending money in the economy has a positive impact to the economy. but it doesn't have a $1.7 trillion impact, it has a $476 billion impact. How does a politician become a millionaire? You give him $2 million and let him lose half of it. JOVE- What makes you believe that if we give these 'idiots' more time, then their wasteful spending use of our money will strat to bear fruit? I think, Simon's point si that, sure, spending money in the economy has a positive impact to the economy. but it doesn't have a $1.7 trillion impact, it has a $476 billion impact. How does a politician become a millionaire? You give him $2 million and let him lose half of it.

]]> By: Doug http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6827 Doug Wed, 14 Jul 2010 07:19:14 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6827 You guys are missing the point. Where do they get that money to pump into the economy in the first place? We either have to borrow it or print it. This is not investment--this is deferred taxation and robbery (because money that is printed causes your money to devalue, effectively stealing your wealth out from underneath you). And I don't care what Keynes said--you cannot borrow money to get out of debt.<br><br>And seriously? Do you really think the bozos that are running the show have the slightest idea of what they are doing? They are throwing good money after bad, and they are doing it for political reasons. Sorry, I just don't trust these guys. Simon is right--they are just wasting our money. You guys are missing the point. Where do they get that money to pump into the economy in the first place? We either have to borrow it or print it. This is not investment–this is deferred taxation and robbery (because money that is printed causes your money to devalue, effectively stealing your wealth out from underneath you). And I don't care what Keynes said–you cannot borrow money to get out of debt.

And seriously? Do you really think the bozos that are running the show have the slightest idea of what they are doing? They are throwing good money after bad, and they are doing it for political reasons. Sorry, I just don't trust these guys. Simon is right–they are just wasting our money.

]]> By: Chase Brumfield http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6819 Chase Brumfield Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:52:52 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6819 Right on Jove... Great article but certainly thanks for the balancing out comment - it was more than necessary.<br><br>You don't simply pump money into an extremely complex system like the American economy and then expect to see a return instantly like putting a quarter in a candy machine. These things take time just like any other investment.<br><br>Hopefully it'll pan out like "they" think it will, but only time will tell. I'm not a huge supporter of over zealous govt control but lets give this ten years and make a more accurate judgement then.<br><br>Give. Get. Give. Right on Jove… Great article but certainly thanks for the balancing out comment – it was more than necessary.

You don't simply pump money into an extremely complex system like the American economy and then expect to see a return instantly like putting a quarter in a candy machine. These things take time just like any other investment.

Hopefully it'll pan out like “they” think it will, but only time will tell. I'm not a huge supporter of over zealous govt control but lets give this ten years and make a more accurate judgement then.

Give. Get. Give.

]]> By: Jove http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6798 Jove Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:21:03 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6798 Simon, <br><br>I find your article a good op-ed piece with a strong viewpoint and peppered with common sense. However, I would just like to digress on one point that may have some flawed assumption.<br><br>You wrote, "Since the end of 2007, the economy has only grown by $476 billion .... Even taken at face value, this means that the government has generated a return of $476 billion on an investment of $1.7 trillion." And you've proceeded to lambast the US government for losing "72 cents out of every dollar that it spent on ‘economic stimulus’."<br><br>Now I'm not for or against any party. But I think to consider the 72% of stimulus money as lost seems to be too hasty a conclusion. Looking at the timeframe and results, the $1.7 trillion government 'investment' on the economy would have a 2.5 year return of 28% already or an average annual return of 11.2% assuming it 'earned' $476 billion. Not bad for a bunch of 'idiots'.<br><br>Investments are not written-off as 'lost' if there is still a prospect for future earnings, which I think there will be.<br><br>Keynesian interventions may have some positive impact, though it may not be as dramatic as we wished it to be. Whether we like it or not, some government spending has a positive effect not just in monetary terms, but in social terms as well that leads to better economic competitiveness (think public education in the mid-20th century or setting-up the basic infrastructure of the Internet as a Defense department communication system).<br><br>Yes, there is much to be desired regarding how government should work. But let us also take a balanced view so that we do not get boxed in by our own biases.<br><br>As always, I look forward to your future articles. If you happen to pass by the Philippines, do send an announcement, I would very much like to meet you.<br><br>Best Regards,<br><br>JOVE Simon,

I find your article a good op-ed piece with a strong viewpoint and peppered with common sense. However, I would just like to digress on one point that may have some flawed assumption.

You wrote, “Since the end of 2007, the economy has only grown by $476 billion …. Even taken at face value, this means that the government has generated a return of $476 billion on an investment of $1.7 trillion.” And you've proceeded to lambast the US government for losing “72 cents out of every dollar that it spent on ‘economic stimulus’.”

Now I'm not for or against any party. But I think to consider the 72% of stimulus money as lost seems to be too hasty a conclusion. Looking at the timeframe and results, the $1.7 trillion government 'investment' on the economy would have a 2.5 year return of 28% already or an average annual return of 11.2% assuming it 'earned' $476 billion. Not bad for a bunch of 'idiots'.

Investments are not written-off as 'lost' if there is still a prospect for future earnings, which I think there will be.

Keynesian interventions may have some positive impact, though it may not be as dramatic as we wished it to be. Whether we like it or not, some government spending has a positive effect not just in monetary terms, but in social terms as well that leads to better economic competitiveness (think public education in the mid-20th century or setting-up the basic infrastructure of the Internet as a Defense department communication system).

Yes, there is much to be desired regarding how government should work. But let us also take a balanced view so that we do not get boxed in by our own biases.

As always, I look forward to your future articles. If you happen to pass by the Philippines, do send an announcement, I would very much like to meet you.

Best Regards,

JOVE

]]> By: Kevin http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6790 Kevin Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:49:40 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6790 According to Fortune magazine, the most profitable company in the world is Gazprom. It's 49% government owned. Government's aren't always the "worst investors" - but to wild-eyed libertarians they are always bad, wrong and wasteful - regardless of the facts. According to Fortune magazine, the most profitable company in the world is Gazprom. It's 49% government owned. Government's aren't always the “worst investors” – but to wild-eyed libertarians they are always bad, wrong and wasteful – regardless of the facts.

]]> By: Fred555 http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6782 Fred555 Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:06:29 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6782 The expression "don't recognize dual nationality" is vague.<br>MOST countries, if you're a cititzen of that country, treat you as only a citizen of that country and disregard other nationalities.<br>SOME countries attempt (not always successfully) to choose only one nationality; if you are and want to remain a citizen of their country you must give up other nationalities. Otherwise if you keep a foreign nationality you lose that country's nationality. Doesn't always work in parctice; sometimes they don't find out about the other nationality, sometimes the other country doesn't allow you to give up its nationality. The expression “don't recognize dual nationality” is vague.
MOST countries, if you're a cititzen of that country, treat you as only a citizen of that country and disregard other nationalities.
SOME countries attempt (not always successfully) to choose only one nationality; if you are and want to remain a citizen of their country you must give up other nationalities. Otherwise if you keep a foreign nationality you lose that country's nationality. Doesn't always work in parctice; sometimes they don't find out about the other nationality, sometimes the other country doesn't allow you to give up its nationality.

]]> By: Christian H Nesheim http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6772 Christian H Nesheim Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:49:25 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6772 An incredibly important, informative post, Simon, I will make sure to share it on all my social networks. You are one of the few sane voices left on economic issues. It's a pity that Krugman, Bernanke and their fellow demagogues are even consulted for any sort of economic advice any more, seeing as they've been wrong time and time again. Why do people keep listening to them? I guess their message is more palatable. Why do we keep throwing more money on these sinking ships, blindly "stimulating" without considering the soundness of those investments? Why do we keep using the same medicine that has only further harmed the patient, as it has done not only in the US (1930s, 1980s, and now), but also the same measures that have plunged Japan into debt-hell? If it hasn't worked before, neither in the US nor Japan, why would it work now? Cheap credit is the whole problem to begin with, how can you expect to cure a disease with the very virus that caused it? An incredibly important, informative post, Simon, I will make sure to share it on all my social networks. You are one of the few sane voices left on economic issues. It's a pity that Krugman, Bernanke and their fellow demagogues are even consulted for any sort of economic advice any more, seeing as they've been wrong time and time again. Why do people keep listening to them? I guess their message is more palatable. Why do we keep throwing more money on these sinking ships, blindly “stimulating” without considering the soundness of those investments? Why do we keep using the same medicine that has only further harmed the patient, as it has done not only in the US (1930s, 1980s, and now), but also the same measures that have plunged Japan into debt-hell? If it hasn't worked before, neither in the US nor Japan, why would it work now? Cheap credit is the whole problem to begin with, how can you expect to cure a disease with the very virus that caused it?

]]> By: JT http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6762 JT Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:37:11 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6762 Please explain: What does it mean when countries don't recognize dual nationalities? It is my understanding that Panama is one of these countries. Please explain: What does it mean when countries don't recognize dual nationalities? It is my understanding that Panama is one of these countries.

]]> By: Jackson http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6752 Jackson Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:01:44 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6752 If there is economic collapse in the US, will countries like Panama ( who use the US Dollar) also feel the pain? <br><br>You're right, there are opportunities everywhere. If there is economic collapse in the US, will countries like Panama ( who use the US Dollar) also feel the pain?

You're right, there are opportunities everywhere.

]]> By: Bob http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6749 Bob Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:27:54 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6749 Simon, absolutely couldn't nail it any more!! I currently have 3 passports and live all over the world and run an online business. It absolutely infuriates me to have to think about the government blasting away the tax payers money like this...I am in Paris currently and I was watching hundreds of aircraft fly over the city yesterday wondering if maybe somebody is invading France or what was up (joking of course (kinda))...upon asking someone they said: " oh no its the practice run for the Bastille Day next week..." I could literally see money being burned from the turbines of the jets flying over the city...are you kidding me? You are wasting millions of Euros to practice a fly by for What? To show off your amazing Air Force? Last time I read Le Monde I could have sworn the government is broke here just like the rest of Europe....So once again I have to shake my head in disbelieve....thanx Simon Great simple insight! Simon, absolutely couldn't nail it any more!! I currently have 3 passports and live all over the world and run an online business. It absolutely infuriates me to have to think about the government blasting away the tax payers money like this…I am in Paris currently and I was watching hundreds of aircraft fly over the city yesterday wondering if maybe somebody is invading France or what was up (joking of course (kinda))…upon asking someone they said: ” oh no its the practice run for the Bastille Day next week…” I could literally see money being burned from the turbines of the jets flying over the city…are you kidding me? You are wasting millions of Euros to practice a fly by for What? To show off your amazing Air Force? Last time I read Le Monde I could have sworn the government is broke here just like the rest of Europe….So once again I have to shake my head in disbelieve….thanx Simon Great simple insight!

]]> By: Antagau http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6736 Antagau Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:03:26 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6736 Simon, I am a South Korean citizen living in the U.S. as a permanent resident (green card). I am qualified to become a US Citizen and was considering doing so. After discovering your website and others, now I am not so sure. Perhaps I should obtain a second passport as a Korean Citizen in other countries. What are the pluses and minuses of my options? Simon, I am a South Korean citizen living in the U.S. as a permanent resident (green card). I am qualified to become a US Citizen and was considering doing so. After discovering your website and others, now I am not so sure. Perhaps I should obtain a second passport as a Korean Citizen in other countries. What are the pluses and minuses of my options?

]]> By: Take the red pill. http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6737 Take the red pill. Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:08:06 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6737 Simon you nailed it! This problem with our economy is structural and being thus, can not be stimulated because the dysfunctional aspects of the economy become "more productive" adding to the problems (and the national debt). <br><br>We need deflation to cleanse the economy and give us any semblance of hope to get the economy back on the right track. Simon you nailed it! This problem with our economy is structural and being thus, can not be stimulated because the dysfunctional aspects of the economy become “more productive” adding to the problems (and the national debt).

We need deflation to cleanse the economy and give us any semblance of hope to get the economy back on the right track.

]]> By: Phil in Uruguay http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6738 Phil in Uruguay Wed, 07 Jul 2010 02:21:25 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6738 The increased deficits after 2007 were caused by falling tax revenues due to the recession, in addition to increased stimulus spending. The increased deficits after 2007 were caused by falling tax revenues due to the recession, in addition to increased stimulus spending.

]]> By: Wayne http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6739 Wayne Wed, 07 Jul 2010 01:43:28 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6739 Politicians "dumping" money into the economy is not explicit, we have a debt based monetary system, before the money can be "dumped" into the economy they have "borrow" the money from the bankers, so this "dumped" money adds to the national debt, not only in principal but with (alas) interest. We hear about how expensive the entitlement programs are but paying the interest on the national debt is also a major expense. They are not only "dumping" money they are creating yet more debt. "The Secret of Oz" DVD (YouTube) explains the debt based money system really well along with a lot of fascinating monetary history. Some say only 45% of the stimulus money has been spent so far and they are saving the rest for before the elections. Politicians “dumping” money into the economy is not explicit, we have a debt based monetary system, before the money can be “dumped” into the economy they have “borrow” the money from the bankers, so this “dumped” money adds to the national debt, not only in principal but with (alas) interest. We hear about how expensive the entitlement programs are but paying the interest on the national debt is also a major expense. They are not only “dumping” money they are creating yet more debt. “The Secret of Oz” DVD (YouTube) explains the debt based money system really well along with a lot of fascinating monetary history. Some say only 45% of the stimulus money has been spent so far and they are saving the rest for before the elections.

]]> By: Ben http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6740 Ben Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:00:56 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6740 Simon,<br><br>I haven't received any letter in my inbox or my spam folder for that matter since Friday so I had to sign up again. I am glad I checked in on the site to find this article today. You are emphasizing one of the main points from my response to your Toronto article last week. This being that everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions and destiny. As you quite rightly state the Governments are idiots and we all know how removed from the real world they are as they don't live in it. <br><br>Some questions should really be asked on the distribution and use of the "Stimulus" funds. <br><br>1. Whose pocket did it really line? <br>2. Is the Federal Reserve (A private entity) accounting for it and determining it's effectiveness?<br>3. Where would the economy be now if the Government had not bothered?<br>4. Where did the cash go? <br><br>There does seem to be a black hole somewhere in the US financial system but I can't quite put my finger on it. There must have been a few fiat Trillionaires created from the TARP, bailouts and Stimulus packages with an ever increasing disparity between the haves and the have nots. Simon,

I haven't received any letter in my inbox or my spam folder for that matter since Friday so I had to sign up again. I am glad I checked in on the site to find this article today. You are emphasizing one of the main points from my response to your Toronto article last week. This being that everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions and destiny. As you quite rightly state the Governments are idiots and we all know how removed from the real world they are as they don't live in it.

Some questions should really be asked on the distribution and use of the “Stimulus” funds.

1. Whose pocket did it really line?
2. Is the Federal Reserve (A private entity) accounting for it and determining it's effectiveness?
3. Where would the economy be now if the Government had not bothered?
4. Where did the cash go?

There does seem to be a black hole somewhere in the US financial system but I can't quite put my finger on it. There must have been a few fiat Trillionaires created from the TARP, bailouts and Stimulus packages with an ever increasing disparity between the haves and the have nots.

]]> By: Jananz http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6741 Jananz Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:08:21 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6741 The false economy can only be upheld through silence, lies and denial, and so it is time for the integrated sovereign to stand up and speak their truth…lest the material wasteland gobble up the universe. No language cuts to the heart of truth better than Native American earth-speak. Indigenous male leaders, being more right brained and heart intelligent are able to speak truth to power with the full force of universal law…through an embodied spiritual justice. We need a movement of indigenous poets and musicians to work within our school systems to teach children from infancy to collage use how to speak from the heart and embody their truth. If white males in particular were able to heal and access the power of the voice of the right brain we may be able to steer culture away from the decent into an immoral fascist corporate oligarchy.<br><br>If the U.S. government is a terrorist organization then the American Taxpayers are “providing material support” to the terrorists. The false economy can only be upheld through silence, lies and denial, and so it is time for the integrated sovereign to stand up and speak their truth…lest the material wasteland gobble up the universe. No language cuts to the heart of truth better than Native American earth-speak. Indigenous male leaders, being more right brained and heart intelligent are able to speak truth to power with the full force of universal law…through an embodied spiritual justice. We need a movement of indigenous poets and musicians to work within our school systems to teach children from infancy to collage use how to speak from the heart and embody their truth. If white males in particular were able to heal and access the power of the voice of the right brain we may be able to steer culture away from the decent into an immoral fascist corporate oligarchy.

If the U.S. government is a terrorist organization then the American Taxpayers are “providing material support” to the terrorists.

]]> By: Laura http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/the-worst-investors-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-6735 Laura Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:59:08 +0000 http://www.sovereignman.com/?p=1801#comment-6735 Excellent article today, Simon. Much of Western society has an entitlement mentality, so it's more important now than ever to speak out against that. I especially appreciate how upbeat you have remained because your enthusiasm is contagious. Many thanks. Excellent article today, Simon. Much of Western society has an entitlement mentality, so it's more important now than ever to speak out against that. I especially appreciate how upbeat you have remained because your enthusiasm is contagious. Many thanks.

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