Would you take to the streets too?

by Simon Black · 71 comments

May 5, 2010
Undisclosed location

The last few days have been great for the shorts. I’m one of them. Global markets have been in an absolute panic over what’s happening in Europe, and many major indices have erased their 2010 gains.

Clearly, the most concerning issue of the day is the ongoing trouble in Greece. The government has been borrowing and spending far beyond its means, and far beyond its growth potential for years. Hell, for decades.

Now the country is going with hat in hand to the European Union and International Monetary Fund (what essentially amounts to the United States) for a bailout. Make no mistake, this absolutely has the potential to break apart the euro zone.

At a minimum, bailing out Greece will require substantial cash infusions in order to get the government running again… quite literally, the Greek government is bankrupt, and it will need a lot of money just to limp along from paycheck to paycheck.

More importantly, however, the EU and IMF will have to step up and guarantee large portions of Greece’s $400+ billion public debt. If they don’t, private investors will be simply unwilling to buy all of the new debt that Greece so desperately needs to issue in order to finance its government for the next several years.

Naturally, if the EU (read: Germany) guarantees Greek debt, it will put 100% of the risk (with 0% upside) squarely on the shoulders of German workers.

Now… let’s go back and reconsider the history of Europe. This is a continent that has been at war with itself, or threatening to go to war with itself, for millennia. If we ignore the Balkan conflicts in the 90s, Europe only has a 20-year experiment of patching things up and playing nice.

I’m not advocating that the continent will once again plunge into destructive warfare… but rather trying to illustrate that the average German worker, who already struggles to give half of his paycheck to the government, doesn’t give a damn about ensuring Greece’s generous entitlement programs.

To give you an example of what I’m talking about, a hairdresser in Greece has the right to retire with full benefits at age 50 because the occupation is one of 580 job categories considered ‘hazardous’.

According to the New York Times, which published a list of these hazardous Greek occupations in March, radio announcers and reed instrument musicians are right up there with coal miners and bomb disposal workers. They all get to retire at 50 or 55.

Needless to say, these entitlement programs suggest that Greece’s financial problems extend far beyond its debt. Total government obligations, including its ridiculous pension program, tally nearly 900% of GDP.

It will be impossible to borrow this amount from private markets, and it is absurd to think that Germany would ever consider guaranteeing such a sum.

This means that Greece will have to make massive, massive cuts to its social welfare programs… and this, after all, is one of the prime conditions of its bailout. Greece is to cut government spending to the bones while simultaneously raising taxes to plug its budget shortfall.

Naturally, this is another stupid idea. Anyone with even most cursory understanding of street-level economics knows that raising taxes provides a disincentive for everyone.

If you raise sales taxes (VAT), you provide a disincentive for consumers to spend… in which case, congratulations, you won’t be able to rely on consumer spending to drive economic growth.

If you raise income tax rates, you leave consumers and businesses with less disposable income to allocate towards investments and purchases which will drive economic growth.

If you raise capital gains taxes, you provide a disincentive for entrepreneurs and investors to take risks that will create jobs and build wealth.

If you raise payroll taxes, you provide a disincentive for employers to hire workers.

You get the idea. Raising taxes is the exact opposite of what Greece should be doing right now… and yet, its politicians are surrounded bureaucratic vultures insisting that the only way out of the crisis is higher taxes.

Now– the other side of the equation, massive cuts to government spending, is laudable. But here’s the problem: Greeks have been paying exorbitant taxes for years. They have been misled for decades that their pension programs would be waiting for them upon retirement.

Now that many Greeks have reached retirement age, suddenly the money that they have been paying into the system for their entire lives is no longer there. And the government is telling the Greek people that they are the ones who need to make sacrifices.

If I had paid hundreds of thousands of euro into a system that had effectively robbed me and left me with nothing, I would be angry too. I would take to the streets too.

That’s exactly what the Greeks are doing now.

If Greece were a private company, the officers and directors would be locked up forever. Politicians, on the other hand, control paramilitary forces which quell the rebellion and shoot a few of their own countrymen.

It’s a disgustingly perverse system, and it deserves to go down in flames.

As I’ve stated before, one of the best ways to play this is to short the euro against gold and silver. I recommended this a few months ago at 760, and gold keeps hitting new, historic highs above 910.

For contrarians, taking a small, speculative bet on Greece right now may be a decent, short-term gamble in the event of a temporary pullback– I know some people who are buying National Bank of Greece (NYSE: NBG), for example.

In the longer-term, though, Greece’s financial problems are clearly unable to be contained, even with EU/IMF support. Afterwards, the continent will have to deal with Spain, Portugal, and Italy… and their problems substantially outweigh those of Greece.

What do you think– would you take to the streets too? I’m curious.

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  • Luke

    Greece is providing those of us in the US with a preview of what’s heading our way in the next couple of years, if not sooner.

    To answer your question Simon, I would absolutely take to the streets.

  • Clarity2009

    Mr. Black, the question is not “would” you take to the streets, but rather for Americans, “will” you take to the streets? The math for future unfunded Medicare and Social Security obligations is little better than what Greece faces today. The day will come when Americans, too, will be finally forced to acknowledge that they’ve been participating in nationwide Ponzi scheme their whole lives, and the day of reckoning has finally come. And as with any Ponzi scheme, you can be mad as hell at the perpetrator, but for most people involved there is no real recourse; the money is already long gone.

    Will I take to the streets? I’m sure I will at some point, but not because completely unsustainable social welfare programs eventually fail. That’s largely unavoidable, and most young people don’t even expect to get social security at this point. I think my “take it to the streets” moment will come when the government seizes private 401k funds in order to keep Social Security and Medicare on life support. When that day comes I’ll either be in the street or on a plane on my way out of the country.

  • Prof Wolford

    I want out of the US forever. I can do great research, public opinion studies, and teach Social Psychology (read interrogation, brain washing, spin) Simon, need help? Anywhere but the US.

  • http://www.ashnow.com/686439 Richard Wiseman

    I would not take to the streets; I would migrate to another country and keep working. Retirement is not what it is cracked up to be. Idleness is not the fuel of happiness; creating/producing is. I am 70 in June and still working.

  • http://palamedes3@aol.com Jonathan Bello

    martin:

    Hope you get all of this message this time. If I was in my
    20′s, hell I would protest in the streets. What a party.
    And the chicks are great. They’re charged up on adrenaline
    and with achohol, its like jet fuel and I’m the pilot.

    But more down to earth. This is not the 17th, 18th, or even
    19th century. Governments today, have the same distain
    for their responsibilities, their stewardship and trustyship
    to their populations as always. Greed may be good in a
    pure capitialist framework but not in the cartelization of
    today’s international and national business. That degree of
    organization coupled with walking hand in hand with the
    umbrella of government regulation, produces huge amounts
    of concentration capital to buy oppressive police and military
    might.

    Consequently, governments can shoot their people, even
    massecrue them with relative impunity.

    I would advise liquidating, a portion into gold and silver
    and then putting money into a food cart kinesh, go to
    some city where bribery is effective, say Marsailles, and
    run your food selling ( with very little overhead) under
    and away from state taxation and state regulatory burden.

  • jean lohmeyer

    Will taking to the streets make a positive difference? Or, considering the fact that the government does have the military on its side, only cause bloodshed and more misery of a different kind. Mabe the best possible scenario will be a French Revolution. I would not consider this a good one. Except for the end of the polititions.

  • d

    the old public vs. private sector cliche. anybody notice GS’ role in Greece, or Chase’s role in national bankruptcies in other countries, soon to be in the US?.

    we need to learn about the problem with the monetary system rather than taking it as a given. since most nations have been conquered by debt-based money, they are hostage to the private financial sector which works for the pseudo-private central banking system.

    every state is bankrupt. why? debt-based monetary system.
    every developed nation is bankrupt. why? debt-based monetary system.
    many corporations and banks are going to fail. why? debt-based monetary system.
    millions around the world will be thrown out of homes. why? debt-based monetary system.
    millions around the world are going to prematurely die once the debt machine really collapses. why? debt-based monetary system.

    it is a system that REQUIRES exponential debt growth, which means eventual collapse. getting people to blame politicians for increasing debt is hilarious (nobody notices that the increasing debt is the “reserve” upon which the banking system inflates the private sector). what a scam being played by the financiers. I wrote an article 4 months ago saying what’s happening in Greece has nothing to do with Greece…it’s just a matter of time before it roles through every other developed country in the world, finally hitting the US, and bringing the world into massive depression when the global monetary system will be restructured.

    of course it is politicians’ fault that they haven’t restored sovereign currencies. so we need to blame them for that, the real problem, instead of yelling at them for things they can’t fix as long as we have debt-based money.

  • http://www.johnsrealdeal.com John Polomny

    No I would not take to the streets. Because I live in the real world I would have recognized long ago that my government was full of s**t and I would have gotten my assets out of dodge long ago. Simple math and a recognition that Greece, along with most G-7 countries, have massive demographic problems that will lead to eventual pesnion and welfare state collapse. If I was a Greek living in Greece now I would act to move as much of my capital out of the country as possible before the hoi polloi intiate a bank run and the government slams the door shut.

  • John

    Simon,
    Yes, however, I would attempt to keep an eye on what the police
    ( and possibly military) were doing and, hopefully, avoid getting
    gassed or shot.

  • Carlos

    This morning I found myself angry that these protesters had to get violent over a reduction in social benefits. I hadn’t figured out (and I hadn’t read it in the media) why they’re so angry. Duh! Don’t know how I didn’t put it together, but thanks for stating it!

    Of course government is always a net sink hole. Will it sink us all if we never manage to free ourselves from it’s grasp.

  • Kent Austin

    I think that we as Americans should have already pounded the streets. We are insane as a nation to tolerate protest from illegal aliens. They continue to aid in the bankruptcy of this country as much as the politicians do. We like the Greeks will wait till there are no other options and it will be too late if it’s not too late now. I believe the demise is perpetrated intentionally with political power their permanent reward.

  • Pat Moore

    Simon,
    As one of your formost followers, I would get the hell out of Dodge and plant my flag in a country that took little from my sweat and left me to care for myself!

    Pat

  • Lars Hansen

    What possible good would going to the streets do? The entire welfare state system is going down. Greece isnt alone in this foolishness of a bankrupt state. Can you honestly say what is happening in Greece isnt to a large degree true of the entire G8 or G20? One has only to look at Argentina to see where we are headed.

    The GFC which started in the banking/financial sector and was bailed out because of the TBTF policies, TARP, and soverign stimulus plans which indebted soverign taxpayers worldwide to the tune of $50 trillion would logically result in unexpected consequences, like the coming sovereign failures: Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain, the UK, US and Japan. Which one will deliver the coup d’grace? No one knows, but just like with Creditanstalt in Austria, the chain reaction of defaults started that all governments were impotent to stop. It is always what you dont see coming (which sovereign, which bank) that will start the chain reaction that will bring the entire global financial system down. The next cycle move will be the defaulting of sovereigns on bonds which will then bring down the banks, and viola we have come full circle for the GREATER DEPRESSION. Man’s folly is without bounds.

  • Jai

    Take to the streets? Not planning to – much more inclined to Get Out of Dodge! It’s time to have a little self-sufficient & self-sustaining hideaway: work, of course, for current income/expenses & purchases of gold, silver, commodities + the hideaway; grow some food; provide one’s own energy/electricity off-the-grid.

  • Justin

    Simon,

    If I believed that taking to the streets would do any good, I would. However, what does one have to gain from this? Ultimately the state is broke. The Greece Ponzi has fallen apart. The politicians cannot pay back what they took from the people and demanding it will not make it so.

    Instead I would rather focus my efforts on a life style change one in which minimizes my exposure to any politician. In this case if I were a Greek citizen I would look into moving to a country in which I could keep the fruits of my labors. Possibly Dubai (deepens on how deep there solvency issues run) or maybe Singapore, I disdain income tax but I can stomach 20%.

    It is surprising to me that this idea of the state manages to keep thriving. One would think that by this juncture in human history we would have decided that giving the monopoly on force to the politicians always ends in broken hearts. By and large we all have Stockholm syndrome.

    At the end of the day hopefully this is awake up call to citizens in other countries who’s politicians have promised to much. To end on an optimistic note as Doug Casey is so fond of pointing out “The situation is hopeless but it’s not serious”

    Thanks for the time and effort you put into these letters it is greatly appreciated.

    -Justin

  • Laura

    It is understandable that the Greeks who have been taxed to the hilt and who have been paying into the system for years are upset that the government won’t deliver on their promises. Rioting, however, isn’t the answer; financial education is, ie shorting the euro like you mentioned and/or buying gold, silver, and other commodities that are bound to rise against all currencies eventually. If you take steps to increase and protect your wealth, and if you don’t trust that the government will take care of you when you’re old or sick, you will have no need to riot.

  • Steven

    Hey, Simon.

    No, I would not take to the streets, not given the current violence (how productive is violence? What is it solving?). Change can be brought about constructively or destructively. If someone doesn’t like the situation, study the options and effect change, possibly by voting in different representatives, going through the courts, or even leaving. My .02.

    • Cathy

      Is this a joke? Please, tell me this is a joke. Vote in better representatives? Go to the courts? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE. Wake up, Mr. 2 Cents. Stop believing in fairy tales. The courts are rigged and there isn’t a pol who would do a damn thing for YOU.

      We have to withdraw consent any way we can. Get out of the money center banks, get out of debt, stop voting, do everything you can to lower your taxes and increase their expenses. You can do simple things that will make a world of difference. For example, don’t answer the census, don’t use electronic filing of your tax return, use cash whenever you can, buy gold and silver, do not watch TV, do not mindlessly consume. Most importantly, do NOT send your children to government schools, where they teach them fairy tales about voting for change. Think of ways of refusing to forge your own chains and teach your children to do the same.

      As for demonstrating, not me. I’m hoping to get out of Dodge really soon as my way of not playing their game. Wish me luck.

  • Trish

    The Greek ‘situation’ is mirrored with slight differences in a lot of other places as well…and right here in the good old US of A. Will they run in the street here too? Think they will. I also think it’s been building up for some time. But this is not news to any of us.

  • Leland

    I’m doing my best to prepare and get to the point where I am in no way dependent upon the word of the pathological liars and psychopaths to whom the brainwashed masses have given power. I sincerely hope to be to the point where I can simply walk away and go someplace safer long before it gets to the point of needing to share the streets with an angry mob.

  • Jim

    There are similarities between Greece and the United States. Americans believe Social Security will be there for them. (NOT) Our debt is similar to Greece, Wake up American, we will be paying for our governments laundering of America for some time. We can not avoid it. Higher taxes are inevitable. American can vote with their feet and protest locally and nationally. Also vote out politicians who are not rational in their actions and are not aligned with the American people.

    • http://www.ObservatoryConstruction.com Jeff

      “Also vote out politicians who are not rational in their actions and are not aligned with the American people.”

      While I couldn’t agree more with the sentiment, Jim, what are the odds of a thoroughly socialized society (US Americans), in which roughly half of the “productive” adult population is either directly or indirectly on the dole, EVER voting out a majority of the politicians?…politicians who ensure the status quo remains status quo?
      Let’s say we do manage to pull off a miracle and empty out the effluent in congress AND the white house. And let’s say we do manage to break the link between the Boeings and the Chases and the HUDs and the electoral process. Even if we do manage to start with a clean slate (which is actually impossible), just how many Ron Pauls do you think are out there?
      I know of one. Maybe two, counting his son. Of course, give them some power and we’re very likely to see nothing but a new emperor.
      And no, protest (at least in this case) is far too little, far, far too late. Empires are designed to fail. It’s written in our DNA. Like the yucca plant that uses up all of it’s energy to send that one slender stalk skyward. And then dies.
      It’s nothing new, we’re just the latest in a 10,000 year tradition of empires. Empires born from the spark of dissent, growing—through INDIVIDUAL industry, frugality and, alas, a generous dollop of genocide and land theft thrown in for good measure—and maturing, yet all the while insidiously rendering our own selves more and more politically powerless.
      And useless.
      Then, finally, tipping over like Humpty Dumpty.
      But, like that yucca, the seeds of dissent and discontent and righteous anger will fall to the ground and, if history repeats itself as it seems to do, a few will germinate and sprout and, who knows?, maybe the next (first?) real free society will colonize the solar system!
      Until then, the only ethical thing to do is collaborate (i.e. fund) with an unethical, immoral, unconstitutional government….as little as possible.
      Well, that and buy and hold gold.

      Jeff

  • Chuck B

    Great article today Simon. I agree, shorting the Euro has been good.

    The scenario you describe above, I would take to the streets if I was a victim of the government propoganda machine my whole life. On the other hand, how can so many be duped into believing that this excessive cradle to grave socialism actually works? Oh, don’t worry about anything, your government will take of you? Get real.
    Why would anyone leave their personal or financial well being in the hands of others, especially the government?

  • pete strand

    LETS JUST SAY EUROPE HAS A VERY BAD CASE (WORST CASE, TERMINAL??) OF THE GIIPS: GREECE, IRELAND, ITALY, PORTUGAL, AND SPAIN!! AND, LIKE YIIPS IN ATHLETES, GOOD THINGS SELDOM RESULT.

    AND in THE US: WE HAVE OUR SPILLS, SO WE HAVE A FEAR OR TWO, TOO! (And then there’s the upcoming hurricane season!)

    ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE A SOLID SUGGESTION ABOUT TO WHICH HAVEN COUNTRY WE SHOULD RETREAT (TAKING ALL OUR ASSETS WITH US, OF COURSE)?

  • K.P.

    Hi Simon and mutual Sovereigns –

    Quick question; I am looking for an internet hosting company that is outside of U.S. jurisdiction. Would you be able to recommend any? Thank you.

    In response to your question; Taking to the streets reminds me of the “blood bath” demonstration recently in Bangkok. The gross odoriferous result was probably more lingering than the intended result of ousting the current leader.

    Thanks much. -

  • Marat

    I would probably never go to the streets again though I have done it once or twice before (not in US). But since then i changed my mind about that kind of things and think that that it is very counterproductive and I will accept it rather as my personal mistake what i failed to see an evident things happening in my country. In short – educate yourself so such government’s surprises will not get you when you are 65, worked hard all your life and ready to retire.

  • Chelvan

    Well, understand what is fair is the key here. Greece has these huge benefits, but in comparison with other nations including Tai land, China, India. Ask them what they have as retirement and how many days in a Month do they actually have day off. Some of them work 12 hours a day and 1 day off per month. That’s just insane compare with these greed Greeks. When the country went into deficit like these. It is not only the fault of their officials in power, but the whole country. The public needs to know what is consider a trade. What is fair between the part of the trade.

    If the public don’t question and go with the government that gives them the best. They will survive. Similarly if I go to USA and promote my campaign by saying everyone works 3 days a week and the rest are holidays. People question what is on the other side of the bargain and what are the consequences. Well if i do win the election then everyone is stupid.

    Sometimes if one is being bride to turn a blind eye, then things come back to haunt them.

  • http://www.forbesgroup.us Lucien E Forbes

    The price of a free ride is the reality of paying the bill. Madoff is in for life and so are the Greeks, Spaniards and Portuguese. When you hand the reins of power to peasants the results are predictable.

    From Bolivia’s nationalizations of yesterday to the Bolshevik nationalizations of yesteryear, predictability is high, time and repetition the only variables.

    Sadly, the fabric of our own culture is shredding in this self-same manner, weighted down by our significant entitlements and immigration catastrophe.
    The Greeks are unarmed against their own government, prescribing a terrible fate, as failed power is not rewarded with peaceful transition.

  • Soooch

    I would take to the streets with pitch fork in hand!!!!

  • Quantella Owens

    No, but then I wouldn’t have trusted “my” government to tell me the truth anyway. I would have set up a separate retirement account outside of the system and in another currency such as the Swiss Franc. No government has ever been able to keep their fingers out of the public till or keep from making promises they have no intention or ability to keep. The mob wants bread and circuses and they deserve exactly what they are going to get……The government, any government is not your parent…it should be the responsibility of everyone to establish and maintain their own safety net. Expecting anyone else to look out your best interest is foolish and childish in the extreme.

  • http://www.soundpower.us David Trione

    Please read Bernard Lietaer’s excellent “The Future of Money”, for ideas on how to create new wealth and a sustainable world in which to live.

  • Curt

    The hysteria has created an opportunity to buy short term greek bonds with excellent yield. While this play involves risk, at least factors are understandable. I picked up 2 year Greek bonds because I am betting that Germany will not allow Greece to default, because, while expensive, it is in their interest to do so. The Eurozone, I believe, will emerge from this intact.

    Gold, by contrast is completely speculative and I believe is a bubble that could pop at any moment.

    I don’t speculate in currencies, but I think if the Euro approaches the $1.00 – $1.15 range, then it’s time to pick up Euro as, PIIGS hysteria aside, the long term macro fundamentals of the Eurozone still point to Euro as a stronger currency than dollar.

    • Cathy

      Gold in a bubble? In a piigs eye… ;-) Methinks you could lose your shirt.

  • Alexander London

    Retirement provided by the government
    As I understand it, there was never any social welfare until the late 1800s, when the German Kaiser started this idea. Before this, all over the world, people worked as much as they could, as long as they could. If they had children, the children would take care of them. If they did not have children, they knew they were in a long-term fatal situation.
    So welfare schemes that let a person live and enjoy life without working are false. Similar to the idea of heaven where everything will be perfect. And the idea of government taking care of everything is similar to the idea of God taking care of us in the next life.

    Money for nothing
    The K-5 school that my daughters used to attend sent home a page that said, “Doyle Elementary earns 4% of your shopping dollars!… And all you have to do is show this form to the cashier…Once!”
    This sounded good, a way to get money to our school, and it would not cost anything.
    As I was walking across the parking lot I thought: Why would the grocery store give away 4% of their gross income, when grocery stores usually net less than 6% of their gross? That would be a huge hit to them. Where will the grocery get the money? Why, the only place they could, from me, their customer. They will need to raise prices at least enough to replace the lost income. So, I really will just be adding 4% — or more – to my food bill.
    How much more unrealistic is it to give money to the government, that must pay over 2 million employees, to handle money for us?

  • John F. Page

    I am nearly 83 and been off my ass for nearly 80 years. my dad was on the go for 96 years. He dyed at 97. Anyone dumb enough to think the gov’t is going to keep their money and give it to them so they can sit on their ass when they want to deserves the rough treatment they are about to recieve. I am tired of heavey taxes for never sweats to waste.

  • ron harrell

    Let’s all pool our money and buy Greece, move their people to Arizona, and rebuild the country on christian conservative principles.

    Who is in?

    Ron

  • Pat

    tar and feathering seems like a good idea…….run ‘em out of town. as for us here in the U.S……..I for one will be voting against any politician who currently has a seat in Washington……force term limits until they get the message.

  • David

    No, I wouldn’t take to the streets – too many years as a law-abiding citizen of Canada with a dozen years served as a Naval Officer to defy authority, in that manner anyway.

    What I did, and heartily recommend to others, is to move on. Vote with something that matters, your feet. No matter what the actual and/or perceived obstacles, in my case it was worth the effort. Over the last almost 20 years, I have gone further and further south from my home in Canada to reduce the burdens of (unnecessary) taxation and (totally unnecessary) Big Brother (PS: the weather is way better, too).

    I relocated initially to southern California in the early ’90′s, then to Mexico, on to Costa Rica and finally and permanently in 2007, to the haven of all havens, Panama. By doing so, I have consistently reduced my financial (and personal) contributions to the State, leaving others including my family and friends to do as they individually saw fit. We each make our choices and bear the consequences.

    I have started and sold businesses (some good, some not so good) in each of my stops. I have now permanently (permanent residents with pensionado status) established myself, my wife and our cat here in Panama. I’m 60 now, and I again find myself operating a new business in a foreign country and a foreign language, this time in the heavy trucking industry in Panama. Over the last 3 years, I now have learned what it takes to be successful in this particular culture and economic environment. Panama is without a doubt everything you have read and heard about and more.

    So my input here is this – don’t take to the streets – take off, and I strongly urge you to consider Panama! At the very least, do as SovereignMan says – if you decide to stay put for now, plant multiple flags; safeguard yourself and your assets and establish alternative incomes. Do it now, it is never too early or too late – but the writing is on the wall for all to read! What are you going to do with what you’ve read?

  • http://www.Liberty4Free.com HEATHER

    Message to all those cowards planning on running away. Good Luck, hope you get shot in the back. Only a coward would run and let a corrupt government taken over by foreign interests steal what belongs to our children. You deserve everything you get because when the smoke clears from the battlefield you will not be welcome back to the Land of the Free that was paid for with the blood of our ancestors.

    Stand and Fight like our forefathers did. But we can’t pull the trigger until we see the whites of their eyes. That is all that we are waiting for. A good target and a clear shot! God Bless America and her Patriots!

    • LookingToLeave

      So Heather, I’m assuming that you’re a pure-bred Native American. Or did one of your ancestors ever look around at their home country and decide that they could create a better life for themselves and their family by emigrating to another country? Maybe they left Ireland during the days of the Great Famine, or Germany when they were being persecuted for their religious beliefs, or any other country during one of the uncountable times of strife over the last few centuries. Do you wish that they were “shot in the back” too?

  • Don

    You have nailed it this time. Excellent article of greed, entitlements beyond sanity and government leadership that did not lead. Strong leadership with “truthful” voices from both the citizens and politicians of Greece will be necessary to turn this around. Destroying your country will not help but sure may force the “truthful” voices to the fore front.

  • Me

    Those who contribute to a system which they do not understand will get what anyone deserves who invests in something they do not understand. A result they do not understand. Greeks are currently getting the result and they are angry because they do not understand.

    Taking to the streets may be productive in the greater picture however it is most likely counterproductive for the individual. I would not take to the streets anymore than I would join an army where I am at risk of becoming a pawn in a game that is far bigger than I am. Individual self interest makes more sense to me.

    Voting with ones feet is the best option.

    That said. If I was old, no Dependants, few options, and had nothing to lose, and was mad as hell I would bring them down as best I could. This would be done thoughtfully and intelligently and not with the mobs in the street.

  • dutch

    personally, i think we should ALL take to the streets, especially here in the US.

    The events in Greece are a harbinger of what is to come, and far too many of my fellow citizens are still watching Dancing With the Stars.

    Me? iIam packing up. And packing

  • http://www.vibrantlifellc.com Karl Loren

    Dear Simon,

    It is either nasty riots in the streets, or blood in the streets.

    Which of those depends on the tone level of the people — are they in apathy and will give up, or are they in anger ready to fight.

    i don’t think there will be massive blood in the streets, but I also don’t think it will be safe for any politicians to stay in Greece, get out while they can and it will be a semi-return to barbarism, and eventually small city states will build up from the rubble.

    Karl Loren

  • Keith

    Heads have GOT to roll……………………

  • KRT

    No streets. That’s forfeiting your position to enter the enemy’s territory. Stay home and force the enemy into your territory where you have the advantage.

    The advantage is your intimate knowledge of your own home and neighborhood. And more importantly there are more of us than them. Even if every soldier, police man, airport security guard, etc came pounding on our doors, at best there would be one of them per neighborhood. This splits their forces and cause them to fight on many, many fronts.

    By going to the streets we would help the enemy by corralling ourselves in between buildings in one big group allowing them to takes us out in one fell swoop.

    Even in dissent, the government still knows exactly how the emotional public will react.

  • Anonymous

    Hang them by there nuts !

  • Martin

    Simon,
    I think the earlier poster who mentioned the possible US government appropriation of 401K funds brings up a very important issue for discussion. I know you have previously advocated using a self-directed IRA for purchasing foreign real estate. Foreign real estate is currently not reportable as an asset. I assume rental income from such an IRA held property would just be tax deferred until withdrawal in retirement. But I wonder if IRAs such as these, given that they are still a government-sanctioned, tax deferred accounts, will also be subject to government appropriation down the road?

    In other words, the government may not be able to force you to sell the foreign real estate, but could they add an “asset” tax on your foreign held assets to get part or most of what you worked hard to move offshore?

    I would be very interested in your thoughts on the cost/benefits of the following alternatives:

    1) Take advantage of US tax code deferment in a self-directed IRA to hold foreign assets, and potentially have to report these assets in the future and pay some kind of ridiculous tax on them since you are still getting the tax deferral benefit from the government until you retire, or

    2) Don’t take advantage of the tax deferral from an IRA, and instead pay your taxes now, and use after tax dollars to buy assets like foreign real estate, and NEVER report those assets, in order to keep wealth completely off the US taxing authority radar screen.

    As an aside to that, I like the Roth IRA’s, even though they have limited yearly contributions. But I suspect, Congress might pass a law requiring you to report your foreign assets even held in a Roth, since your tax benefit is in the future, when you withdraw money tax free. Congress could say, Mr. or Mrs. Taxpayer, tell us what you have in your Roth overseas. We need to evaluate the situation.

    However, I still like the Roth concept, and if one owns one’s own company, there are options out there, for owner-only companies (usually where there are no employees, and each owner has a minimum percentage ownership), where a Roth 401K can be set up for those owners, and the contribution limits are much higher.

    But I still wrestle with the fundamental question:

    If I am relying on the government to “give” me a tax break, will that provide the open door for them in the future to force me to report all foreign assets, or be in violation of the law? And if so, are the tax advantages now worth that risk?

    I would really like to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

    Thanks Simon, for a very interesting report on Greece, and the problems with debt-ridden states. When they get to the brink of bankruptcy, I think the state can act in desperate ways.

  • Filip Rabuzin

    Taking to the streets would be a risky proposition and one that would largely depend on how closely your heart is tied to your current “nation” or place of residence. Speaking from a practical eastern european perspective, one question you might ask yourself is – At what point do the paramiliataries employed by said organisation switch their loyalties to the people and turn on their employers? Pick any other time and the end result for you of your protests isn’t likely to be good.

    Personally, i’d agree with a few posts above, migrate as soon as possible and teach your children that whatever happened in the “old” country could just as well happen in the “new”. We’ve been a globalised society for a while now, the heart may have its old desires, but the future is all that matters. Just hope to god there’s always going to be a place looking to gain more from allowing its people to be free, rather than oppressing them.

  • Bad Chad

    What would be the point? Demanding the government pay you something they can’t? Or that they print money and devalue what you have leaving in the same position, unable to pay for food? If you do go to the streets you will be there with the people who demand that socialism is somehow adjusted to give you what you want. In other words you will be demanding that the government employ more paramilitary to guarantee they will be in a position to take every thing from you. There will be no one there who actually wants to live free. (By no one I mean so few as to not matter)

  • Rolf Krohna

    I am one of those who have been cheated, not i Greece, but in Sweden, where I paid on average 75% in tax, and 98% on the last dollar earned. I was told I would be taken care of when I got older, but they changed the system as they went, and now I live on very little as far as pension goes. Taxes is just a fee the politicians implement to line their own ego and pockets. It is the world’s financial black plague.

  • Sharp

    Yes, in a situation were I could not leave the country, take it to the streets, but only heavily armed. But more importantly: the heads of Greece’s state should already be shot dead by now. Like Mugabe, someone should have pulled the trigger on these morons.

  • Gerald Carpenter

    Hell yeah! If I were a Greek suddenly screwed out of the gravy train, I’d be really angry, and in the street. That doesn’t make it logical or justified, but emotionally irresistible.

  • jerry

    Yes Simon, I would take to the streets at some point, but we must be careful not to get shot…..

  • Peter

    Taking to the streets indicates one has hope in changing things, or they are simply venting which is not productive, I’d vote with my feet. I live in a country that will be in this position in twenty years. Nobody I speak to will even entertain this as a possiblility. So I have chosen to leave them to it.

  • Myron Bevans

    Yeah, I would take to the streets alright…the nearest ones out of town and out of the country.

  • Peter

    Taking to the streets means becoming a potential target. The effect of taking to the streets will be nil, as such demonstrations usually are. I am reminded of the Chinese take on trouble: Of the 36 ways to avoid trouble, the simplest is *leave*.

  • travelman

    Taking to the streets is what we all should be doing, in Canada, US, and just about everywhere else. It works. Because the “people” massively have the numbers and every government is terrified of that. In very recent history look to Nepal, French labour law protests, Kyrgyzstan and current Thailand. For Americans look to the 60′s re Vietnam and Civil Rights. Tiananmen Square for the Chinese.
    Taking to the streets doesn’t have to be violent, you just need enough people out there. Government WILL take notice. Then if we can find truly decent people to replace the current regimes, instead of simply replacing them with a different, but same same, group of wankers.
    Like John Lennon said, “Power to the People, Right On!!!!”

  • Des

    Greece clearly needs to reform economy and prosecute politicians who violated trust of its people.

    However, let us put this into perspective. Greece is 2% of EU economy. Hardly a risk to the world’s well being.

    The ongoing obession by international financial media such as CNBC and Bloomberg on this issue is perplexing. If so concerned about debt issues and impact on world economy, should at least also focus on US and UK pending disasters that have been temporarily postponed with their access to the “Printing Press”. California, New York, Illinois are technically bankrupt today. Harrisburg, PA by some reports has already defaulted by missing 2 consecutive payments?

    In fact the US Govt may be also bankrupt today if interest rates were allowed to rise normally and not manipulated by US Fed policy.

    Where is the coverage by the financial media on these issues? Instead all we hear about is Greece, Piggs, Europe….blah blah blah…

    How would the US Govt pay the interest on its 14 trillion dollars of debt if rates were allowed to normalize?

    With so much concern for Germany, is there equal concern for China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Japan for their exposure to the US Debt disaster?

    Is it not convenient for the for the media and their contacts in the financial markets (US treasury dealers) to shift focus and perpetuate fear towards europe while US$ strengthens and rates fall allowing for govt to further indebted its citizens in a quiet way.

    Welcome your response, Mr. Black. Thank you.

  • Dee

    Greeks got what they deserved! How can country reduce retirement age to 50y old when people are now living into their 100th y??? What are all those early retired Greeks doing??? siting in cafes and drinking??and planning to do so for another 50 years???? If I was a german gov I would not assist them and get them out of Euro Union, they do not deserve to be there!

  • SPANIARD

    EUROPEAN UNION IS A WASTE OF TIME AND RESOURCES.

  • Bryan

    I would not take to the streets, because I would not be a deluded idiot who believed and expected welfare for old people (government pensions). I’m young and entering the workforce, and have been against such schemes from the start. In fact, I’m not even going to bother working in my country (Canada) and have employment lined up somewhere where I will pay a lot less income tax and there’s basically no government confiscated pension system there. I don’t see why I should pay for health care for fat old lazy people when I keep my body in impecable condition, why I should cover old losers retirements because they were so ignorant and deluded that they didn’t bother saving a dime in 50 years, or anybody else, no matter how virtuous they are. The virtuous people are always the ones that don’t ask for and don’t need help when they are down on their luck anyway. They certainly don’t force it from others through government vote. Even then, I don’t recognize anyone’s claim to even one cent of my money or one minute of my time. Nobody has that by right, I’m a sovereign individual. So to answer your question, I would be in the streets long before the collapse. I would be at events like the Tea Party protests, which never would have happened in Greece because the culture has no respect for individual rights and limited government. I would be an agent for political change, but I would also maximize my individual freedom as much as possible beforehand.

  • Bryan

    Why is everyone here blaming Greek politicians? It is the Greek population that has wanted entitlements so long that is responsible. Politicians don’t come to power for no reason, they are a reflection of their culture. Do you think they would have rediculous pension schemes or other government entitlements if nobody in the country wanted them, and they all wanted a free laissez-faire individual rights based society? You make me laugh. If you think the politicians should be shot, then what about the root of the problem, the culture of Greece? Should they all be dumped into the sea?

  • Dr. George Martinez

    I would emigrate as did Europeans, to Latin America, in the 30′s. I have young kids so it’s all about giving them a decent chance to grow & prosper. The trick is to figure out a way to work & earn income. But I’ve been planning for while now…my wife is Colombian & my kids are Mexicans, so my odds of securing visas & bank accounts are probably higher than average. I look forward to it, actually. I look forward to getting the hell out of here sooner than later. Things don’t look so promising up here.

  • http://none Jim

    As a citizen of the good ‘ol USA I am well aware of some quite laws. The one that makes me thinking three times befire hitting the streets is –the president has no obligation and needs no other legal approval to state that he considers me and my fellow countymen terrotists and therefore can apply any method of force he feels necessary to eliminate us for the terrorists actions that we are envolved in..

  • paul

    Yes, all of the above but why have none noticed the way of ML King and Gandhi? Few died, few left the country, the country benefitted and THEY GOT THERE WAY. It was called civil disobedience. Wouldn’t it be a good idea for the producers to stop production for increasing periods of time as economic decisions become more socialistic? For those of you who haven’t guessed that’s us. Why can’t we strike? If it’s going to go down the tube, as we all expect, protect yourself as best you can now and go on a vacation, shut the plant. Come back, work, and if the gov’t. still remains obtuse do it again and again and again, each time longer than before. Be creative with your excuses. Tell the bank to add your shortfalls to the back end of the note. They will not evict when it is you, their best debtor, asking for help. It’s all lost anyway is the premise. Who are they going to give your house to if you’ve paid it off and you have some metals (protect yourself.) Siphon as much cash as you can for whatever protection it will give. A walkout would give the gov’t something to think about, the economic class they wish to pay for it all is striking. It can even be done covertly. Less production, less income, less tax to the man. If you own a business, I did, are you going to lose it anyway by complaining about the rioting in the street when it’s all too late? No one has to die in the streets as a protester. Let me tell you how easy this can be. True story.

    I was speaking to a Latin customer of mine. He did not own a business but paid taxes as an employee. I asked him if Obamacare was a good idea and he said yes because people need help. I asked him who was to pay for this and he did not know. I shared with him the Glenn Beck clip of two women being asked where Obama was getting the money to pay for the health care system they were in favor of. “He’s going to get it from his stash, I don’t know where he’ll get it from. Go Obama, go Obama.” When I told him that as a tax payer he was going to pay for it as was I and many others, and taxes were going up you could see the light bulbs go off. All of a sudden he did not like the impact all this was going to have on the money he was providing to his family via weekly checks. He walked in as a Democrat and left a Republican.

  • tsubaki

    Most folks are going to have to take to the streets sooner or later, because the financiers aren’t going to leave them much except their eyes to cry with. Those with the wherewithal to leave can, but that’s going to be the only choice. After all, what’s happening in Greece is just a trial run for the UK or the USSA. Anyway, street protests have worked very well around the world over the last decade or so – and a hell of a lot better than “voting the bastards out” has.

    The Greek government is planning to increase military spending on needless weapons systems from their “friends” in Western Europe. This insanity alone is worth taking to the streets over. Who is going to attack Greece, other than bankers?

    Greece desperately needs to default, so the greedy and stupid banks can take a bath, and leave the Euro, which they shouldn’t have entered in the first place.

  • Craig

    Yes, to answer your question. More of us should have been on them pre-Iraq war, pre-PATRIOT Act, etc. The system is broken, by that I mean corrupted beyond usefulness for those it is supposed to serve. To be fair, We the People have been poor masters for our servants. In essence we have commanded them to give us trifles they have no means to provide but to steal from others.

  • Athanassia

    Thank you for offering nice clean cut information on what s going on here (I live in Greece). Complete the picture with corrupted uneducated politicians and administrators (tax officers who blackmail enterpreneurs, private tuition for all parents etc) and you can understand the anger and furstration.
    The media are also projecting subjective messages around the globe, depending on their local perceptions. We feel extremely embarassed.
    We are desparate.

  • Mark A. Leiter

    Definitely, I would demonstrate ( I’m not certain about whether I would RIOT)!

    Hopefully, we, as a People, will Wake Up and Take Action, so that this question will never have to be faced.

    In short, in the case of the Greek People, I absolutely DO NOT BLAME THEM!!

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